Wednesday, March 29, 2006

Anonymous comment on OVEN

We had someone post a comment to my late last night post on OVEN price activity. I would like to thank whoever this person was and here is his comment reposted on the blog to get the attention it deserves.

I would like to invite the person who posted this to our blog. I completley agree with your point of view on the stock and despite being bearish on the stock never quite had the guts to go short on it.

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Betting on short squeezes is dangerous. Witness MOVI, in which the flost got 60% short when it was at about 8$, and kept getting shorter down to 2.5$. Those that bet on a squeeze when it based af 5 (after falling from 35) got smoked.

Here is the short case for OVEN, written June 20, when the stock was at 18. Just so you know that money can be made shorting.

I recommend shorting Turbochef (OVEN) $18.50 because it is a business that received a very large 1x in nature contract with Subway that the market has mistakenly perceived as the next hottest restaurant trend and has given OVEN an equally hot valuation. In reality, Subway is many multiples larger than any other restaurant chain Turbochef should reasonably expect to win business with and our conversations with restaurants decision makers and industry experts do not suggest widespread interest in their products. The market is mostly limited to c-stores, sandwich chains, coffees chains, and to a lesser degree, independent units without a major kitchen on premise. We think Turbochef is more realistically valued at $6 per share, including the $3 cash per share.


BUSINESS DESCRIPTION:Turbochef sells one product: Commercial use countertop ovens that combine microwaves, convection, and infrared ray to cook food 12x faster than normal ovens. The Turbochef technology has been in existence for over 5 years but has found new life in the menu expansion trend at various Quick Serve Restaurant (QSR) chains. Turbochef is also trying to adapt the oven for the residential market. It has high hopes for this segment but the technology is only 85% complete and is slated for a mid-2006 release.


SHORT THESIS:-Subway contract was a special situation and OVEN is unlikely to secure contracts of similar size in the future. -Oven only makes sense in Coffee/Sandwhich/C-stores and end market is much smaller than bulls expect in addition to a 6 year replacement lifecycle and exclusive contracts with major customers-Strong competitors and worthy product substitutes reduce the size of an already small market-Residential market unlikely to embrace OVEN & established players have similar products in the market selling poorly-Significantly overvalued given peak annual recurring unit demand of 15,000 units


SUBWAY CONTRACT WAS A SPECIAL SITUATION IN TERMS OF DEAL SIZE AND NEED FOR THE TURBOCHEF OVEN. CONTRACTS OF SIMILAR SIZE ARE UNLIKELY IN THE FUTURE:The Subway contract was a unique situation because Subway had been looking for a way to compete with toasted subs from Quiznos. Turbochef was the perfect solution given Subway’s lack of other cooking equipment and the oven’s small footprint that is well suited for Subway’s limited space. A contact at the Subway told us they had tested a number of rapid cook oven brands a few years ago and went with the OVEN oven because it had the fastest cook time. Furthermore, Coca-Cola footed half the bill as part of a recent arrangement to switch from Pepsi to Coca-Cola, after 15 years of loyalty. At 22,000 locations, Subway is almost twice the size of the next potential customer; the market does not realize that the easy pickins’ have been picked. In their favor, recent follow-ups with Subway owners lead us to believe the campaign has been highly successful, driving more than 10% same store sale growth.


SMALL END MARKET WITH 5-7 YEARS REPLACEMENT LIFE; RESEARCH SUGGESTS ~90% OF LARGE CHAINS NOT LIKELY CUSTOMERS:The oven really only makes sense in sandwich shops, c-stores, and coffee shops, where there is not a major kitchen on premise. Furthermore, Turbochef signed an exclusive agreement with Subway and cannot sell the same device into Subway’s major competitors. They will likely sign similar exclusives with all major customers. With a 5-7 year replacement cycle and our research ~90% of large restaurant chains are unlikely customers the end market appears to be a fraction of expectations. According to industry stats, there were roughly 240,000 total franchised restaurant units under 400 brands across the globe at the end of 2003. About 70% of the units are controlled by the top 40 franchises, which each have over 1000 locations. Our specific research suggests that less than 90% of these top 40 are highly unlikely to become Turbochef customers in the future. This leaves ~20,000 units, as potential rapid cook oven customers, including Starbucks, 7-Eleven, and other small convenience stores, but Turbochef will not be able to capture this entire market given the competition.
Additional research assessed the amount of industry buzz around new food concepts and the likelihood of QSRs making rapid cook oven like equipment purchases. It does not seem like any major customers beyond Starbucks (~4500 US units, 9000 total) has plans to introduce a new food concept that would require a Turbochef oven in the near future. This only represents a 1x ~ .15-.20 EPS, or .03 EPS recurring since rollout will likely be limited to full size US stores (Not kiosks etc.)


SPECIFIC CHAIN RESEARCH:
03’ Units Restaurant Chain(s)
32k Yum! Brands, KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut30k McDonalds6k Dunkin Donuts6k 7-Eleven9.5k Wendy's7.5K Starbucks
FINDINGS: 91k total units researched. Yum! Brands with KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut unlikely according to contacts: no new menu shifts, equipment on hand adequate, pizza chains married to current cooking process and don’t want to alter taste.
McDonalds has rolled out Enodis, Turbochef competitor in numerous countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand) and is testing 400 Enodis conveyor style rapid cook ovens in US for a Hot deli sandwich concept. Likely to go with Enodis.
Dunkin Donuts- doesn't fit into strategy and currently testing Blodgett convection ovens for two stage donut cooking only.
7-Eleven- testing Turbochef right now but began recently. Testing usually takes 12 months minimum. Contact claims it was a little big and not much cooking room, she prefers other brands currently.
Wendy's (Baja Express, Tim Horton, Café-Express)- IR didn't think any menu changes were likely to come, new equipment is huge obstacle to them and they avoid it at all costs.
Starbucks- testing Turbochef in DC in 100 locations currently. But also testing Turbochef + Maytag’s Amana in Seattle market, will have to see how this evolves but we think it is a likely OVEN customer.

STRONG COMPETITORS AND WORTHY SUBSTITUTES REDUCE THE SIZE OF AN ALREADY SMALL MARKET:Turbochef directly competes with Amana, a commercial cooking equipment division of Maytag and Enodis, UK holding company with more than 300m in annual rapid cook technology sales. Both companies offer rapid cook ovens of similar quality & price, but Turbochef is the leader in cook time. To verify our research on the size of the market, contacts at Amana thought the market was more limited to C-stores. Management at Enodis admitted the particular market for Turbochef’s technology would start off slow but he could see it eventually growing into a larger size.
There are also many substitutes to rapid cook ovens including advanced microwaves from Panasonic that use convection to help toast. Other substitutes include standard convection ovens, which use propelled hot air to cook 2-3x faster than normal ovens. An contact from Blodgett, a major manufacturer of convection ovens, confirmed the rapid cook oven market was of small size and limited to C-stores, which is why Blodgett did not pursue the market despite once having a relationship with Turbochef. Conversations with a high level sales manager at one of the largest distributors (three distributors make up 75% of commercial cooking equipment sales in the US), who carried Turbochef, Amana, and Enodis said that this market was “not even on his radar,” however, he said it took many years for conveyors ovens to find a following and everyone uses them now.


RESIDENTIAL MARKET WILL NOT EMBRACE THE TURBOCHEF OVEN AND ESTABLISHED PLAYERS HAVE SIMILAR PRODUCTS IN THE MARKET THAT SELL POORLY:Established residential brands have experimented with rapid cook ovens for nearly 20 years but the product has never been a hit seller with consumers. Today, lines from Thermador, Maytag, KitchenAid and others cook between 2-3x faster than traditional ovens and range from $1,100 to $6,000 dollars. Turbochef wants to introduce a residential oven in mid 2006 for $6,000 that is 8-10x as fast as traditional ovens. This will likely fail because major brands will block their entry, ovens that cook more than 3x faster require precise cook times and this margin of error does not work well in the home environment (if you’re 10 seconds off in your cook time you’ll burn the food), it will not be effectively priced, and the technology isn’t even completed. In addition, it will not serve as a substitute to the microwave oven because it will take time to pre-heat just like all ovens, and it will not be a substitute for the conventional oven because it cooks too fast to be readily useable. Conversations with professionals in Maytag’s residential cooking division confirmed that Turbochef’s dreams for this market were far fetched.


VALUATION: Significantly overvalued given peak annual recurring unit demand of 15,000 units:We looked at valuation a number of different ways:
First, we wanted to look at an expected peak recurring earnings stream. Using conservative estimates we discovered that a total of ~63,000 stores were potential installs. To get this figure we took the 240,000 (2003 figure) restaurants chains across the globe and divided it into categories ranging from burger joints, pizza shops, coffee/snack, chicken etc. and applied a reality metric to each category to see what made sense. Our values ranged from “doesn’t make sense for this market,” or 10% of all units across globe would become customers, to “makes total sense”, meaning 75% of those establishments would install the oven
Category 03’ Units % Realistic Potential Installs
Burger 60,000 10% 6,000 Pizza 34,000 10% 3,400Coffee/Snack 40,000 50% 20,000C-Store 14,000 75% 10,500Chicken 19,000 25% 4,750Sandwich Bakery 35,000 50% 17,500Mexican 10,000 10% 1,000
Total 212,000* 63,000
*excludes customers we think have already gone with competitors
We then adjusted for modest chain growth, potential customers with multi unit installs, non quick serve restaurant chains customers, and gave Turbochef a very generous 70% market share and applied a 6 year replacement life cycle to the peak install figure.
Potential installs 63,000Franchise growth 30,000Multi-installs 25,000Non-QSR 10,000
Total potential installs128,000Turbochef 70% share 90,000Replacement life 6 yearsAnnual recurring units 15,000 ASP @ $4,800 72,000,000EBIT @ 16% 11,500,000Taxes (w/o 45m NOL) 4,000,000NI 7,500,00
EPS @ 31.59m diluted .23 cents @ 13x forward PE $3Cash per share $3
Value per share $6
A worse case scenario is 60k annual peak recurring units sold each year, which yields a $15 per share valuation. We think the probability for this is less than 5%.
Another way to look at how absurdly valued we believe the company is…. The subway contract at ~85% fulfillment (international locations are still being rolled out) generated only .26 cents in free cash flow per share.

RECENT DEVELOPMENTS: -Changed ticker from TCF to OVEN -Stock has recently rebounded from $11 to north of $18 based on:-mgmt. appearances on CNBC and Jim Cramer -expectations for a deal with Starbucks-numerous positive spins in the recent conference call on customers testing the oven-Possibility for Subway to rollout 2nd ovens at each location for another expansion of the menu
-We believe the only real concern is a possible 2nd oven rollout by Subway. This 2nd oven would be for their Pizza concept, which had been tested a number of years ago without much success as a standalone product because it did not impress the customer and the overhead of new equipment didn’t justify the concept. Based on our analysis we do not think an announcement is likely in the NEAR future for the following reasons:
- Our conversations with multiple developing agents suggested very few were currently testing the concept and virtually no one was confident it was certainly being rolled out in the US- At the very least we are multiple months away from Subway having enough data to make a solid decision on rolling out this concept
However, here are the facts to sort through about this possibility:- If Pizza is rolled out, capacity problems with current ovens would make it highly likely a second oven is needed to support new concept. During peak times a meaningful number of locations are experiencing wait time for their Turbochef ovens. - Each Turbochef oven cost $300+ a month in electricity to operate and owners do not want to front that additional bill- First Turbochef oven purchase was subsidized by Coca-Cola for roughly half the price. Store owners will likely have to pay for second oven themselves and many are opposed- Many subway locations are limited on countertop space and do not have any more room for a second oven. - Many of developing agents do not believe the concept is a smart move given contrast with the healthy subway image- Subway tests lots of products and any new food concept that comes to the table is thoroughly tried and tested. Pizza is one of many.
-Turbochef claims 30 major chains are testing their ovens and could make a decision within the next year. Again, our industry research and conversations with test kitchens and various R&D departments make this seem unlikely.
-In addition, Turbochef is 85% complete on a rapid cook oven for the residential market. A market it pegs at 16 million US households. We think the likelihood of this being a realistic market is very small. Although from a timing perspective, it does provide a fantasy for the market to trade on despite the outlook for poor earnings into the foreseeable future.


RISKS:
- A significant number of QSRs could easily adopt a menu change that requires the use of a rapid cook ovens- OVEN is able to leverage brand in Rapid Cook ovens and build into other lines. They’re already trying this with a normal convection oven. Sales will disappoint though. - Subway elects to install two ovens per location, management is hyping this possibility, it is clearly explained below- Headline risk from deals with large chain operators or even small chains that help fuel the Turbochef dream for another few quarters- At ~$4,800 ASP the Turbochef oven is not a major expenditure for most restaurants -Subway will probably grow 1000 units a year for the next few years and will provide some recurring stream

Catalyst:
CATALYSTS:
- Significant expectations have recently been built into the stock, without any major delivers the market will quickly forget the Turbochef story. If major wins occur we’ll have to wait to get paid b/c this dream will remain alive. - Residential market opportunity proven unrealistic

14 Comments:

  • Sure, let me know how to get a loggin and i'll join.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:14 AM, March 30, 2006  

  • Wouldnt draw anything from that...one insider thought 10$ was a good time to sell. At 20x eps, they need to earn 1.2$ for a 24$ share price, the minimum if i were to go long. Impossible.

    Let me know how to get a log on and ill post some more stuff.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:45 AM, March 31, 2006  

  • great post. I am long, but i appreciate the analysis. I just dont see how all the insiders and institutions can be so wrong if the shorts are rights. But we will see.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:33 AM, April 07, 2006  

  • Help me out here. when you said an insider said $10 was a good place to "sell" were you refering to selling out your short position? Or were you suggesting that if the stock falls to $10 you should start a new short position because it will cause a stampede on the down side? Then you turn around and talk about a what if about $24. I am confused. What were you suggesting regarding your comments on EPS at 1.20 and the 24 share price. Are you suggesting that you would only go long if that was a possibility and that you think it is impossible for this company to attain that?

    Did you see the announcement on Bloomberg yesterday that breakfast sandwiches were partly to blame for SBUX's 10% same store sales increases for the month of March? Whether SBUX stays with the Turbo or goes to another brand is still up in the air, but I think there is no doubt that SBUX will keep moving wider and wider in the food program rollout. After all, they have 70 people working on the project. You dont need that many people if you aren't already planning to move forward. The 70 number comes from a CNBC article dated March 8, 2006.

    Are you aware that TurboChef was invited to demonstrate their product (with Charlie Trotter) at the Dunkin Brands Global Franchise Convention last week in Las Vegas. Its not likely that Dunkin would invite them or that Turbo would spend that kind of money to be there, unless there was serious interest by both parties. I have been unable to find any reaction though. It could be that Turbo ends up without any interest from the Dunkin Donut folks, only time will tell, I guess.

    I think the whole residential gamble is just that, its a total hit or miss deal. It either pays off big, or is a total flop. But everything on the commercial side seems to point to the continued acceptance of the technology as answering the needs of certain types of establishments.

    The convenience store operators are all interested. However, Turbo lost one chain, WAWA, to Enodis, but Turbo picked up Quik Trip.

    I agree with the Oppenheimer analyst following Turbo, Barry Sine, who thinks there is an excellent market to tap into in the hotel room service kitchen market. Turbo is already doing business with many of them, but not any big numbers yet.

    I live in Dallas, and on the Turbo website, Turbo has the endorsement of the chef at one of our top restaurants, the Mansion on Turtle Creek. The website also boasts an endorsement from one of the top country club catering managers.

    If every high end restaurant is a candidate, and every high end country club is a candidate, and every convenience store that serves fresh baked/heated food is a candidate, isnt there a pretty good size market to go after?

    As a long on this stock, your analysis does keep me awake at night wondering, is this a great product, in the hands of an okay company, that when it starts making a profit, it is still only a $6 stock.

    Tell me this. How could all the institutions, Goldman, Oberweis, etc., that own 46% of this company, have been so snookered into buying into this company at 15-20 a share? Dont they have access to all the same information to perform their DD that you have? Are they really just lemmings chasing a momentum stock that is trying to sign up more Subway type deals? I agree with you that the Subway deal was unique and that there is not another similar type deal out there in the universe for Turbo. And you may be right, that even if Turbo gets all of its fair share of the available market share, then EPS will not support more than $10 in stock value.

    On the other hand, is there any chance that speed cooking technology will spread throughout society the same way that microwave did. I remember the first time I saw a microwave and wondered what the hell is this. I did not recognize that some day everyone would own one.

    The people that have experienced this product claim that the food, like the baked turkey, is as good or better than a conventional baked product. they claim it actually helps the food retain moisture, not the opposite. If that is true, and I am not saying it is, I havent tried it, but if it is true, why would people not want to cook faster?

    If the technology does catch on, I wonder if it could end up like Beta vs. VHS. If Turbo has the best tech, like Sony did with Beta, but Turbo does not liscence it out to the other manufacturers, then the other oven makers may simply change the tech to avoid patent infringement and leave Turbo behind.

    Have you ever considered the value of Turbo stock if it goes into the liscencing business instead of the manufacturing business?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:31 AM, April 08, 2006  

  • By insider selling at 10 imean an insider recently sold at ten dollars. From here, the stock would need to hit 1.2$ IN EPS AT 20X (24$) for me to consider it worthwhile investment. It simply does not have that risk/reward profile.

    If the odds of a drop to 6$ are 50%, and the odds of a rise to 20$ are 50%, then the expected value of the stock is 13$.

    I dont think SBUX will roll out food substantially because most revenue in SBUX stores is at high traffic times, i.e lunch, dinner, breakfast. At these times. there is no room in a crowded store for people to wait for a sandwich, when SBUX quality control demands a max of 3 minutes from the moment i get in line to the moment i get my drink. In smaller style kiosk stores (30% OF LOCATIONS)this doesnt work at all.

    The Dunkin Brands global convention means nothing in my opinion. But think of this: presenters pay Dunkin, i.e. it is 100% margin for them to host these things.

    Not sure what you mean by residential exactly. If you mean convenience store, i believe the market is simply not there, as stated in the write up.


    Analysts dont know preferred stock from live stock, a quote im sure youre familiar with. Barry Sine is no exception. Every country club takes a separate phone call and 4 month procurement process, forget it. High end restaurants are not candidates, in my opinion that is a joke.

    The DD I performed is the kind of thing a hedge fund does because pay is based purely on performance. In their wildest dreams, any institution would not do this level of DD.

    We wil never see a turbochef unit in every household.

    The taste/flavour issue is the same as polyacrylates versus polyaspartates: one is environmentally friendly and legal and costs more, and one is potentially harmful and legal and costs less.

    Licensing means the company gets a royalty of its technology I assume? This technology wouldnt get licensed unless margins were there to justify it, and if they were, these licensees would soon make it impossible for OVEN to sell its own units. Once reduced to a royalty stream, OVEN instantly loses any operating leverage and the value of any prior industry relationships (built upon proprietary technology) is nullified.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:23 AM, April 08, 2006  

  • I understand what you meant by residential. I don't think its possible. But thats just me.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:32 AM, April 08, 2006  

  • Again, I respect the amount of research you have put into this and don't disagree that your ultimate outcome may be correct. But I will make these points.

    As to the insider selling, you could call it insider selling, but that is misleading. It was actually insider exercising an option by selling it. You are referring to the COO. He did not come to this firm with the other three amigos that had made big bucks at their previous big hit, Practice Works. Presumably, he does not have the same wealth that Perlman, Price, and Cochran have. Lehr has exercised and sold his stop options every time he could. He may need the money for a variety of reasons. I dont think you can read anything into his sales. He may not have the money to exercise the options and hold them.

    I think you are wrong about SBUX and nothing coming out of SBUX supports your negativity. Everything suggests the opposite. All their statements and all the comments on the net from managers says they are moving forward very confidently with the hot food program. Over 70 people have been hired to implement it. Subway had 5 people to implement theirs. Same store sales are being increased, not decreased due to increased wait times. Of course, SBUX could change their mind, but due to the lack of sales that SBUX has during most of the time their stores are open, I think SBUX is capable of handling the issue of waiting during peak sales times and still offer products that attract customers into the store when there is no line. You seem to focus on any negative aspect and assume it will be a deal killer instead of a solvable challenge. My view is that the market will ultimatly decide. SBUX will continue to test the concept, attempt to work out any drawbacks, and if it works it works, and if it doesnt it doesnt. But the empirical feed back from corporate, regional managers, store managers, customers, and same store sales is that its working despite all the negatives you cite. I think the kiosk locations are even more of a natural for a quick food product. At these locations, people are even more apt to need food to go, space is a premium and that is a point in Turbo's favor, not a negative, and people at those locations would be less likely to expect the highest of quality for a food product, just something acceptably appealing and in a hurry.

    Well actually, the more I re-read your post, you are coming across as probably a paid basher by a hedge fund. Your comments have lost a lot of the objective quality that your first post had and you seem to be generalizing everything in favor of your preconceived outcome.

    All analysts are fools. Only hedge funds actually do due diligence. All institutions are blind fools.

    All presenters at corporate conventions were duped into being there and had to pay big bucks to be allowed to present without any advance indication of interest by the host.

    All sales to country clubs will be difficult and slow, therefore they wont happen. Even though high end chefs have said they like the product, you are certain that it will not appeal to the industry.

    Sounds to me as though you are losing objectivity and have an agenda.

    Oh well, the debate continues. That is why the stock is both bought and sold at the same time.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:38 AM, April 08, 2006  

  • Hahaha. No agenda here. I no longer own the stock. I made my 50% and got out, since I think there are much better plays.

    My objectivity has been spelled out for all to read since I posted the writeup. Address the valuation I posted if you're so confident. I firmly believe that the country club market/residential market/high end restaurant market will generate NOWHERE NEAR the order flow necessary to sustain this thing. Its SBUX or bust, and I don't agree with your assessment there. But, these are just my opinions.

    It has been my experience that yes, all analysts are fools, institutions follow new york groupthink, and insider selling usually means something.

    Advance indication? Like what? "Guys, you got a great product there, but we need to see it up close, why dont you drop a wad of cash and we'll let you come down and show it off." Followed later by "You know what, we really like the product, and youre great guys, but due to the vagueries vis a vis the production parameters, and the need for vertical integration and synthesis procurement, blah blah blah...thanks for the dough, see ya". Come on man, these guys play for keeps. Dunkin has the power in this supply chain, not OVEN.

    I too think the amrket will ultimately decide. Good luck.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:42 PM, April 08, 2006  

  • I already complemented you on your exaustive research and knowlege. I take you at your word that you have no agenda. LOL. You are certainly more thoughtful than the nuts I run into on the Yahoo message board.

    So to keep up the intellectual debate, here are my comments:

    I can't begin to match your analysis on valuation. Since reading your first post, I have lost sleep wondering if this company may end up a profitable company someday that is never worth more than a $6 stock.

    I disagree that the countryclub, high end restraunt business can't prove to be lucrative. But it is much like the residential idea. The tech has to catch on and become a viral marketing concept. If the opinion makers in those areas use it and like it, they will tell others and it will catch on. I think viral marketing is more likely to help in the country club and restaurant business than in the residential.

    Sbux is moving forward very well so far. Slow, but no snags yet. The only negative scenarios have all come from outsiders just offering opinions like yourself. The message boards and public comments from inside SBUX by corporate, managers, and district managers all point to a broader and broader roll out of the concept.

    All analysts fools? Seems like a broad brush you are painting. But you have Cramer in your camp on that position.

    If all institutions are into group think, then since the worm may have turned, why has the institutional held shares increased, not decreased?

    The insider selling has been next to none, except by Paul Lehr. I have already addressed that possible reason. If you need the cash, you take the cash. If he is so smart with insider info, why did he sell in May 05 at 10 just before the stock went to 19 in July 05?

    The insider selling I worry about happened as a result of the secondary offering. It worries me that Perlman, Price, and Cochran, came in, pumped money in, saved the Subway deal from being killed, took advantage of the situation by doing the secondary, got ALL their initial investment funds back out, and still own a whopping % of the remaining shares.

    It worries me that if this stock is never worth more than 6, the three amigos made off like bandits leaving me and a lot of institutions holding the bag. And in the mean time, they draw all their exec salaries, bonuses, etc.

    Do I wish Perlman would take that money he got from selling shares at 20.50 and buy back in at 11? You bet. I have said so on the Yahoo board and I have been told that company management monitors that board. who knows, maybe Perlman will show some faith and take me up on my challenge.

    I tell you this, if the Turbo managment was foolish enough to go to that much time, trouble, and expense to take Charlie Trotter to Vegas, without any promises from Dunkin corporate, then these three amigo really are over their head. And it will prove once and for all that success in the software business game does not necessarily transfer over to the appliance business. If nothing comes out of Dunkin soon, then Perlman and crowd can have back my shares of his $6 stock.

    Tell me this, as a former Short, what is your guess as to why the short interest is still so huge. Why didnt the dip to 10.12 shake out more of the shorts and entice them to cover? What price do you think the really large short holders are aiming for? 9? 8? 6? less?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:52 AM, April 09, 2006  

  • As far as I know, short interest is measured at the end of the month, and the number is released either 2 or 3 weeks later depending on the index. Which means that end-of-march short numbers might not be out yet, but once they come, you might very well see a dip versus the end of february number. But its tough to tell. Shorts may very well have covered when it hit 10, and have since reupped at 12, and so the covering would never have been reflected in any official numbers. I think the move from 10 to 12 is infact shorts covering, but who knows. Very dangerous to count on a short squeeze, witness MOVI.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:54 AM, April 09, 2006  

  • But as to the analysts (Cramer is a momentum investor in my opinion, a speculator not an investor). In my view, analysts and institutions operate in much the smae way: they are guided by a spineless instinct towards self-preservation which ensures mediocrity. An analyst would rather have a buy rating alongside 14 of his peers, and have the stock tank, so he can say "we all had a buy rating", than take the risk that his lone sell rating is wrong, thereby exposing him to riddicule and potential firing. I think most institutional new york fund managers work the same way. How can you not when you have quarterly, and sometimes monthly, numbers you need to hit in order for the advertising materials to look good? Churn em and burn em. Look at the prevalance of end of quarter mark-ups, I think that says it all.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:03 PM, April 09, 2006  

  • Now you really are painting with a much too broad a brush. All of us get mad as hell when a stock goes south when all the analysts said it was a buy. We all have longer memories for the mistakes of analysts than for their successful recommendations. Human nature dictates that we blame our investing mistakes on ignorant analysts, and we credit ourselves with all the credit for investments that go up and quickly forget any buy reccomandations that analysts made on the winners.

    If there were ever two industries where current performance and not prior reputation counts the most, it's professional golf and the investment game.

    You cant really tell me that in the investing business, everyone involved is not constantly trying to out think, and outperform everyone, especially the competition. If you arent more interested in being right than in being popular, then you dont last long in the investment game.

    You can certainly make the argument that the analysts and institution that have shown faith in the OVEN are the ones out on a limb, bucking the common thinking. After all, 45% of the float is being shorted.

    As to whether the shorts covered much on the recent dip below 11, the volume numbers don't support that that happened in any large numbers compared to the size of the short interest.

    If you had initiated a short position at say 16, what would be your current strategy for profit taking and loss prevention? What would be your targets and stop loss indicators?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:02 AM, April 10, 2006  

  • I am still not saying your valuation analysis is flawed. but here is some news that negates some of your theories.

    You stated in your model that the Turbo product did not fit into the Dunkin Donut strategy and that DD was testing the Blodgett ovens.

    Big announcement yesterday by the CEO of DD. Big menu changes coming soon. Hot pocket sandwiches. Emphasis on "fast service" and quality merchandise.

    DD has already announced plans to expand from a predominately east coast brand of 4500 stores, to a nationwide chain of over 15,000 stores by 2020. They have already built two new prototype stores. One in Cleveland, OH and the other in Pawtucket, RI. A telephone call to the store in RI confirmed that they already have installed and use the TurboChef oven at that location. It may or may not continue with TurboChef along, but big changes are in the works for DD and so far, all indications are that TurboChef premier place at the Global convention was not merely a paid appearance by TurboChef that will not equate to more Turbo ovens being utilized in the DD future plans for both menu changes and store expansions.

    Say what you will about whether OVEN can ever be a $20 stock, you could be 100% accurate, but there is indication that firms like DD and SBUX like and will use the machines being manufactured by Turbo. There may never be enough customers to justify a huge stock price, but the customer base IS growing.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:16 PM, April 11, 2006  

  • Hmmmm? I guess nobody cares to keep talking about TurboChef.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:03 PM, April 18, 2006  

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